Gaming
Hmmm... less than four hours 'til I start tonight's Star Wars session. Maybe. o.o; Four players, one of which found out last night he's working late enough show about halfway through our playtime window. E-mailed everyone for opinions. I've heard back from all of one of the others, who seems to be saying "let's just play as normal anyway." I dunno, I expected a little more response and a little more sympathy, I guess. I suppose I'm just strange that way.
I've been holding off comments on the ongoing Shadowrun game because... well, I didn't want to be negative. I don't want to slam the game or hurt anyone's feelings. My initial problems with the game were very me-oriented, and I certainly didn't want to come down on things due to my own inability to get into my character.
But... even with all that, I think we've still got a problem. It isn't my character anymore - though I might still like to "find" more to him, and I really was trying to avoid slipping into the role of leader (after Exalted) yet seem to be doing so anyway. It isn't the glacial pace of online play... or at least it isn't only that. But there's still something(s) tripping us up and keeping it from flowing well and being fun.
The problem is I'm not sure there's any one big thing to point at.
Delays and distractions are an issue to some degree. But I don't know whether having to re-ask a question multiple times/ways to get an answer is due to the GM juggling a lot in the game, or out of the game, or just thinking differently. I don't know if players ask "why are we doing this?" because they weren't paying attention, or because their minds just aren't clicking with what was said. I can't know this stuff without being told from their end. I can only really say for sure that we're still having communication issues where points are not getting across and it takes a long time (even for online) to get everyone on the same page. It still feels like about half the group isn't paying attention or involved at any given time, and that's not really a good thing.
Combat... actually hasn't seemed to drag too much to me. Oh, it slows things down in any RPG, but it's about what I expect. It doesn't typically involve rolling a gagillion dice eight times per action, like some styles did in Exalted. But some people still do roll four-or-so times. Players aren't encouraged to "stunt" actions left and right, so we can spend a little less time writing them out even if the results show less flourish. It seems within acceptable parameters.
There do seem to be some different... expectations when it comes to combat, though. I don't recall if a non-lethal bias was stated for character creation or if I slanted that way simply because of how the Furry Pirates game turned out a few years back. We reached a point in the game where the GM was appalled that the PCs would essentially pick a ship over and doom a crew to death. Us players sorta looked back and said, "Dude, we're pirates? You expect morals?" He did, but that was never really conveyed. So I made a character who would, and could, use non-lethal methods first, even in the stereotypically grim-and-gritty world of Shadowrun. At least one other player didn't. So we had something of a repeat of that previous game when a sentry spotted someone and our moderately-typical street samurai painted the wall with the guard's brains. Clearly any expectation of lethality being a last resort was not properly conveyed to everyone, whatever the case. So some characters may be looking at the sammy thinking, "OMG! Murderer!" and he's probably looking back thinking, "WTF! Care bears!" This could be interesting inter-character relations. Or it could lead to players disassociated and feeling they aren't playing the game they thought they were, which tends to lead to a loss of interest.
Hacking still slows things down. It always has in Shadowrun, so far as I remember. Deckers use to have to plug in and then get their time in the Matrix GM'd while others waited. Current wireless hackers function in something closer to real time, but it's still an issue. We come to a door/camera, and wait for the hacker to deal with it so we can go on. It gives them something to do, but makes the rest of the game flow very stop-and-go to have one character doing virtual stuff at each little bit of security we come across. This could be tailored some depending on just what the job is the PCs are doing, but you don't want to make the hacker obsolete either.
As usual, though, I'm not sure what it would take to fix the game. I can only think more feedback from all parties might help us figure out what to improve on. Here's my .02 nuyen.
I've been holding off comments on the ongoing Shadowrun game because... well, I didn't want to be negative. I don't want to slam the game or hurt anyone's feelings. My initial problems with the game were very me-oriented, and I certainly didn't want to come down on things due to my own inability to get into my character.
But... even with all that, I think we've still got a problem. It isn't my character anymore - though I might still like to "find" more to him, and I really was trying to avoid slipping into the role of leader (after Exalted) yet seem to be doing so anyway. It isn't the glacial pace of online play... or at least it isn't only that. But there's still something(s) tripping us up and keeping it from flowing well and being fun.
The problem is I'm not sure there's any one big thing to point at.
Delays and distractions are an issue to some degree. But I don't know whether having to re-ask a question multiple times/ways to get an answer is due to the GM juggling a lot in the game, or out of the game, or just thinking differently. I don't know if players ask "why are we doing this?" because they weren't paying attention, or because their minds just aren't clicking with what was said. I can't know this stuff without being told from their end. I can only really say for sure that we're still having communication issues where points are not getting across and it takes a long time (even for online) to get everyone on the same page. It still feels like about half the group isn't paying attention or involved at any given time, and that's not really a good thing.
Combat... actually hasn't seemed to drag too much to me. Oh, it slows things down in any RPG, but it's about what I expect. It doesn't typically involve rolling a gagillion dice eight times per action, like some styles did in Exalted. But some people still do roll four-or-so times. Players aren't encouraged to "stunt" actions left and right, so we can spend a little less time writing them out even if the results show less flourish. It seems within acceptable parameters.
There do seem to be some different... expectations when it comes to combat, though. I don't recall if a non-lethal bias was stated for character creation or if I slanted that way simply because of how the Furry Pirates game turned out a few years back. We reached a point in the game where the GM was appalled that the PCs would essentially pick a ship over and doom a crew to death. Us players sorta looked back and said, "Dude, we're pirates? You expect morals?" He did, but that was never really conveyed. So I made a character who would, and could, use non-lethal methods first, even in the stereotypically grim-and-gritty world of Shadowrun. At least one other player didn't. So we had something of a repeat of that previous game when a sentry spotted someone and our moderately-typical street samurai painted the wall with the guard's brains. Clearly any expectation of lethality being a last resort was not properly conveyed to everyone, whatever the case. So some characters may be looking at the sammy thinking, "OMG! Murderer!" and he's probably looking back thinking, "WTF! Care bears!" This could be interesting inter-character relations. Or it could lead to players disassociated and feeling they aren't playing the game they thought they were, which tends to lead to a loss of interest.
Hacking still slows things down. It always has in Shadowrun, so far as I remember. Deckers use to have to plug in and then get their time in the Matrix GM'd while others waited. Current wireless hackers function in something closer to real time, but it's still an issue. We come to a door/camera, and wait for the hacker to deal with it so we can go on. It gives them something to do, but makes the rest of the game flow very stop-and-go to have one character doing virtual stuff at each little bit of security we come across. This could be tailored some depending on just what the job is the PCs are doing, but you don't want to make the hacker obsolete either.
As usual, though, I'm not sure what it would take to fix the game. I can only think more feedback from all parties might help us figure out what to improve on. Here's my .02 nuyen.
Forgot about inflation, chummer. That's a full 2 nuyen in today's markets. Lessee.. slow pace when we're waiting for room description, what each person is doing, then waiting for the decker/hacker to splice security and make it okay for us to operate. Slow when confronted by guards/others and having to vacillate in the methods used to incapacitate so we can continue the run. It should be noted that my murderous street sam has now decided to stop and ask if it's okay to use lethal force before plunging his spurs into someone's neck. ;)
ReplyDeleteOh. Addendum. With a super charisma charmer in the group, why do we have combat? She flashes tits and the NPC goes 'Duuhhhrr.' and eats out of the palm of her hand.
ReplyDeleteI would have figured food tucked IN the cleavage would be the way to go when flashing tits. You keep your hands free then, right?
ReplyDeleteAheh. It sounds like that character is being swapped out for another, which will probably leave me in charge of social rolls. This frustrates me on another couple levels, actually. Though, as a technicality, the adept commanding voice trick generally only works briefly, commanding them to one action before they realize "wait, why'd I do that?" So... it's not a complete solution to everything.
ReplyDeleteWhen I read this I think of party OOC communication. I think since I started playing online I've noticed a lot less of it going on. Probably this is because in a lot of the games I've done the last several years, the game world is a persistent online MU with little GM interaction, and so OOC communication with other players often looks like 'cheating' done at the expense of an opposing player (who's playing the antagonist). But when I used to sit around the tabletop doing the regular Sunday RPG group, we would talk strategy all the time. We would plan out what we were going to do. Sometimes that took place IC, but sometimes extended conversations took place in what was really very little game time. Sometimes the GM might object because he/she wanted the PCs off-balance or to get their initial reactions to things without a lot of thought, but rarely did I stop such communications. What I've done in our SW game is try to open the OOC lines of communication more so people know what I as the player am thinking, what my character can do, what I'm planning. I am trying to solicit input in hopes that makes everyone feel more involved, even if the other group members aren't doing something that's their 'specialty'. In my mind, not EVERYTHING needs to be IC. Maybe that's a little bit of metagaming, but I don't see it as bad? The other thing I notice here is this: rich in detail and complex RP worlds are exactly that. My mind has a ton of other things going through it all the time, it seems. Everyone has distractions - when I'm playing mine are usually family and that's fine. And even if it didn't, when you only play once a week for a few hours, people forget stuff. They have to look at notes, or logs and sometimes, that's just plain annoying and makes things take even LONGER when things already move slow. Secondly, the GM probably remembers details about the game world his/her players don't. That's reasonable, because a GM usually spends more time with the material than the players do, spends time thinking about player's actions and possible reactions to prepare, and plans out where the story is going more or less. Plus they're most likely to have complete reference material and notes, where the player probably just has unfiltered logs of previous sessions to search through or handwritten notes. I guess this all combines to make the world seem just too confusing for players sometimes - at least it does for me.
ReplyDeleteSounds like the Old Jedi Mind trick.
ReplyDeleteYes. But "Hand over your guns" pretty much ends combat before it begins. Every time.
ReplyDeleteThere are still some limits... theoretically... errr... Okay, the simple fact is I would not have interpretted that power quite as loosely as has been. Complex action, five words or less, they get bonuses for multiple listeners, there are penalties for using it on the same people repeatedly, the effect is temporary... It's a power I took to be "neat and useful," but has been made to be close to overwhelming. Even so, it won't work on things like machines or critters that don't understand the language. It won't solve everything, but against some opponents... yeah...
ReplyDeleteHe learns quick! Still, I find myself wondering why the delays exist. I know there's lag time inherent in online play, but I've repeatedly had poses lost/overlooked, only about half the group seems to know what's going on at a given time, and some people go whole sessions making only a few poses. Why? I sort of feel I'm falling into the role of "leader" just because I try to pay attention and keep things moving. When I try to back off and let others act, I usually feel like we grind to a halt. o.o;
ReplyDeleteHmm. All stuff to think about and bear in mind...
ReplyDeleteI'm not allowed to act.
ReplyDelete