(WoW) Roles and Roles
Well, we finally got back into raiding after a couple weeks of not, for what is probably the last round of pre-nerf tier 11 content. We still have some minor issues, such as 11 people available for a 10-man raid and one of our core healers not really wanting to heal. Opting for more "farm" content, we struggled a little to find our footing on Magmaw, then went on to clear 2/3 of Blackwing Descent.
It got me thinking a bit about how specialized we become in these fights.
Of course, there's the "holy trinity" of three roles at play. Whether that's good or bad is a matter of opinion. Personally, I feel doing away with them is different, but not better (though I reserve the right to change my mind if proven otherwise). Regardless, they're around to stay in WoW. That setup brings with it an obvious learning curve. If a player is an experienced healer, you expect it to take some time for them to perform to an equal level as DPS. Similarly, going from tank or DPS to healer may take a bit. That's exacerbated by most classes needing different gear to switch roles, which they probably haven't had a chance to build up to the same level.
That makes having a healer frequently saying he doesn't want to heal anymore a problem. Even if someone steps up as willing to take over that role (which hasn't happened yet), there's the question of whether they're able. Character-wise, it means needing a different gear set and talent spec, or possibly a different character completely. Player-wise, it means probably two people on the team will be learning anew how to fill those functional roles to the best of their abilities. And when a progression fight could be a "by the skin of your teeth" victory, any of those things could instead mean repeated failure - so it affects everyone in the group.
But there are also other mechanical roles that come up unique to specific encounters.
As an example, I can point to the trouble we had with Magmaw. This is one of the first/easiest raid bosses of the tier, and we've got probably a dozen or more kills on him easy. So why did it take us a few attempts to get it down Saturday? One of our members has switched from playing his warlock to playing a warrior. Given the rest of the group, his assigned duties went from "nuke down the worms" to "hop on Magmaw to chain him down when available." That sounds simple, and people who have done it a few times probably barely have to think about it. To someone who has not done it much (if at all) before, however, the timing can prove tricky. And if you don't get it timed right, the tank gets chewed to death no matter how good the healers are, and that usually leads to a cascade failure and a wipe.
We get specialized by taking on specific duties in the fights. I'm pretty darn good at interrupting Maloriak's storms, but not so good at wrangling the aberrations. We had at least one wipe on Atramedes because someone new to gong-ringing wasn't standing close enough when the time came. Most raid bosses have some mechanical trick requiring one or more people do something other than just manage threat and facing/deal damage/keep people alive. And, honestly, I like it that way - it makes the fights more interesting and memorable. But anytime you shift someone new to a critical assignment, you can probably expect three (in my experience, sometimes more) wipes before they really start to get it down. On new content, that can be wearying. On familiar content, it can lead to lots of "why the f- is this so hard tonight?" feelings.
So as with most things, there's a balance to strike. With only one regular raid night a week, though, it's hard to make time to diversify and cross-train if you expect any forward progress...
It got me thinking a bit about how specialized we become in these fights.
Of course, there's the "holy trinity" of three roles at play. Whether that's good or bad is a matter of opinion. Personally, I feel doing away with them is different, but not better (though I reserve the right to change my mind if proven otherwise). Regardless, they're around to stay in WoW. That setup brings with it an obvious learning curve. If a player is an experienced healer, you expect it to take some time for them to perform to an equal level as DPS. Similarly, going from tank or DPS to healer may take a bit. That's exacerbated by most classes needing different gear to switch roles, which they probably haven't had a chance to build up to the same level.
That makes having a healer frequently saying he doesn't want to heal anymore a problem. Even if someone steps up as willing to take over that role (which hasn't happened yet), there's the question of whether they're able. Character-wise, it means needing a different gear set and talent spec, or possibly a different character completely. Player-wise, it means probably two people on the team will be learning anew how to fill those functional roles to the best of their abilities. And when a progression fight could be a "by the skin of your teeth" victory, any of those things could instead mean repeated failure - so it affects everyone in the group.
But there are also other mechanical roles that come up unique to specific encounters.
As an example, I can point to the trouble we had with Magmaw. This is one of the first/easiest raid bosses of the tier, and we've got probably a dozen or more kills on him easy. So why did it take us a few attempts to get it down Saturday? One of our members has switched from playing his warlock to playing a warrior. Given the rest of the group, his assigned duties went from "nuke down the worms" to "hop on Magmaw to chain him down when available." That sounds simple, and people who have done it a few times probably barely have to think about it. To someone who has not done it much (if at all) before, however, the timing can prove tricky. And if you don't get it timed right, the tank gets chewed to death no matter how good the healers are, and that usually leads to a cascade failure and a wipe.
We get specialized by taking on specific duties in the fights. I'm pretty darn good at interrupting Maloriak's storms, but not so good at wrangling the aberrations. We had at least one wipe on Atramedes because someone new to gong-ringing wasn't standing close enough when the time came. Most raid bosses have some mechanical trick requiring one or more people do something other than just manage threat and facing/deal damage/keep people alive. And, honestly, I like it that way - it makes the fights more interesting and memorable. But anytime you shift someone new to a critical assignment, you can probably expect three (in my experience, sometimes more) wipes before they really start to get it down. On new content, that can be wearying. On familiar content, it can lead to lots of "why the f- is this so hard tonight?" feelings.
So as with most things, there's a balance to strike. With only one regular raid night a week, though, it's hard to make time to diversify and cross-train if you expect any forward progress...
I think you've just nailed on the head why I'm glad they don't have specialized roles usually in Guild Wars. If someone wants to switch roles, it's no big thing. And I think it'll be even better with GW2. But as you say - we'll need to wait and see.
ReplyDeleteKnew this was coming in some form. ;)There is a trade-off. GW: As far a primary roles, healers are still "required" - usually one or two per group in any content that's "at level." If you don't have a full group, you can fudge it with NPCs, but if the group is full... you end up asking your ritualist who's never done it to become and healer and watch him flail in confusion. There aren't really any fight-specific roles in PVE content save the very occasional splitting up to attack/defend certain points. But that lack of other mechanics is precisely what makes GW combat in general, and bosses in particular, so utterly forgettable to me. GW2: If removing the option to specialize as a healer works well, I think I'll still mourn the distinction between characters. If it works really, really well I might not notice. I'm hoping for the later, but not holding my breath. I haven't seen much in the way of major encounters or "bosses" and how they'll work outside one scene of a mass combat with a dragon that was just all over the board. I worry they might be overusing the context-sensitive abilities, but... ultimately I can't even hazard a guess on whether encounters might have meaningful duties within them other than going "pew pew" in your profession's fashion.
ReplyDeleteTrue, a healer is required, but most classes can double up on Monk and provide healing for themselves or for the party. This works best with some classes over others, of course. :) As for GW2, I've seen one fight with a boss - pirates, if I remember correctly. And then I think I've also seen a centaur boss, but I don't remember. Thing is, if you look at a group, sure, the boss should be 'tougher' than most of your opponents, but in WoW, I'm looking at the boss fights and wondering 'why aren't these guys completely destroying the countryside and everyone around them?' From what it sounds like, a single boss in WoW could just mow down the heroes, and if the heroes are giving a hard time, they'd leave, heal, and then attack at their leisure. ;) (In my Saturday Pathfinder game, I've had the odd enemy actually retreat, leaving them as a potential threat later)
ReplyDeleteIt can be argued either way. Complaints I could (and have) level against GW: Why couldn't someone stop Shiro Tagachi? Why is the feared Abaddon such a pushover? That glowy red guy was a boss, really? Your complaint against WoW bosses seems to be grounded in "realism." That's fair, suspension of disbelief counts for something. So does making a game fun and interesting to play. Personally, I place much higher value on the gameplay. If I'm enjoying playing, it doesn't bother me that I've already foiled Vanessa VanCleef's plans several times before, Loken could have squashed me when I set foot inside the door, or that several dungeons exist in extradimensionally huge space. I may be a little masochistic that I find some enjoyment in struggling to overcome certain challenges, but hey. And the rarity of world boss sightings speaks to how long even raid bosses would survive if they went rampaging in the wild. People gang up outside the strict 10/25-man conditions and beat them down. ;)
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