(RPG) A Step Further Back
So when I pulled out my AD&D 2nd Edition books, I also dug out the old AD&D (first edition) PHB and DMG. These books were inspiration and vague reference for me back in the day, not manuals. I know I played and GM'd before 2nd Edition, but I think that was a mix of AD&D and several of the soft-bound boxed set books from "regular" D&D at the time. I remember taking stuff from Unearthed Arcana, but I don't remember using these two core books all that much as direct reference. What interesting little things did I find there?
- Ability scores still had different maximums for male and female characters in a few cases.
- Half-orcs were a standard PC class. I sort of thought these were "new" in 3E, but apparently they were just making a reappearance.
- Lots of sub-classes. I would have thought 2nd Edition expanded, but really it seemed to pare things down a little bit. Illusionists were their own class. Assassins were in the PHB. Bards were... an F'd up version of dual-classing (fighter > thief > druid > bard) in an appendix (and psionics, too). Many classes still had race limitations.
- Experience by the GP. Seriously, the base experience reward was equal to the gold piece value of treasure "liberated" from dungeons/monsters. Magic items that were kept to be used only rewarded a portion of their full value, but still counted. And it seems like every place this is explained has a disclaimer saying basically "no, this isn't realistic, but it's a fantasy game so suck it up."
- Levels required training and payment. Weeks and something like 1250 gp per week, which I guess removed a good chunk of the accumulated gold from the game. All the races had at least one class they could advance in without limits (unlike 2nd Edition), but non-humans still had a number of level caps for everything else. The system also still had "name levels" where characters could suddenly build strongholds and attract followers.
- Pre-THAC0! The idea was sort of there, but there was no encouragement to calculate it in advance. Rather the to-hit matrices were only in the DMG.
So, naturally, there was even more winging it for anything outside of combat.
I'm actually a little startled at how both 1st and 2nd Editions, while not having much in the way of suggested guidelines material rewards per level, do have sections devoted to telling the DM to not overdo it, with some degree of advice on how to correct games in which players have received too much stuff. Even by the time the AD&D DMG was printed, "Monty Haul" games were "bad." I sort of remember thinking of Monster Manual-listed treasure type as the expected default, though in reading the DMG, it seems that's more an upper bound for a "lair" with the maximum-sized group of monsters.
Addendum: Also, while 2nd Edition included a lot of "sidebar" for optional rules, there was little or nothing in first that was singled out that way. I think, perhaps, the psionics, bard class, and stuff in the appendices were considered optional rather than giving any alternate ways to do the main stuff throughout the books.
Addendum 2: As I'm reminded while commenting, AD&D had 1-minute combat rounds, which I believe persisted through 2nd Edition.
- Ability scores still had different maximums for male and female characters in a few cases.
- Half-orcs were a standard PC class. I sort of thought these were "new" in 3E, but apparently they were just making a reappearance.
- Lots of sub-classes. I would have thought 2nd Edition expanded, but really it seemed to pare things down a little bit. Illusionists were their own class. Assassins were in the PHB. Bards were... an F'd up version of dual-classing (fighter > thief > druid > bard) in an appendix (and psionics, too). Many classes still had race limitations.
- Experience by the GP. Seriously, the base experience reward was equal to the gold piece value of treasure "liberated" from dungeons/monsters. Magic items that were kept to be used only rewarded a portion of their full value, but still counted. And it seems like every place this is explained has a disclaimer saying basically "no, this isn't realistic, but it's a fantasy game so suck it up."
- Levels required training and payment. Weeks and something like 1250 gp per week, which I guess removed a good chunk of the accumulated gold from the game. All the races had at least one class they could advance in without limits (unlike 2nd Edition), but non-humans still had a number of level caps for everything else. The system also still had "name levels" where characters could suddenly build strongholds and attract followers.
- Pre-THAC0! The idea was sort of there, but there was no encouragement to calculate it in advance. Rather the to-hit matrices were only in the DMG.
So, naturally, there was even more winging it for anything outside of combat.
I'm actually a little startled at how both 1st and 2nd Editions, while not having much in the way of suggested guidelines material rewards per level, do have sections devoted to telling the DM to not overdo it, with some degree of advice on how to correct games in which players have received too much stuff. Even by the time the AD&D DMG was printed, "Monty Haul" games were "bad." I sort of remember thinking of Monster Manual-listed treasure type as the expected default, though in reading the DMG, it seems that's more an upper bound for a "lair" with the maximum-sized group of monsters.
Addendum: Also, while 2nd Edition included a lot of "sidebar" for optional rules, there was little or nothing in first that was singled out that way. I think, perhaps, the psionics, bard class, and stuff in the appendices were considered optional rather than giving any alternate ways to do the main stuff throughout the books.
Addendum 2: As I'm reminded while commenting, AD&D had 1-minute combat rounds, which I believe persisted through 2nd Edition.
The Wilderness Survival Guide and the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide both had non-weapon proficiencies in them for 1st Edition. The Thac0 rules for 1E were really weird, since they didn't follow a linear path. Huh. I completely missed training time / training costs. That could have saved me a hell of a lot of hassle.
ReplyDeleteMind you, while I think I have both those books, I'm only looking at "core" rules as far as retrospectives. If I were to include everything else, it would get pretty ridiculous. @.@
ReplyDeleteAnd yet everyone says how "Alike" each edition of AD&D was pre-3rd and how atrocious 3rd was compared to how different it was and then we got this again with the new 4th. Suck it up folks. D&D has -major- overhauls each edition. You're just curmudgeony because you have rose-colored glasses about what you're currently playing. ;)
ReplyDelete1-4 weeks, depending on the average of the DM's gauge of a player's performance over the previouse adventures. Initially, characters have to spend 1500 gp per week and find a trainer of name level of the same specific class (good-performing players can self-train at double cost). Upon reaching name level, characters then just have to spend the time themselves and gold: (1000-4000, depending on class) per week per level. The training time had to be contiguous. If you couldn't find a trainer when you needed one, too bad. And I believe you stop accruing XP just below the next level if you've failed to actually advance for one reason or another.
ReplyDeleteI don't know. Looking at it now, I see 2nd Edition as a good, solid revision/condensation rather than a true overhaul. Most of the math was the same. The class and race lists were altered slightly. The association of XP with defeated monsters and accomplishments was a notable change, though some connections to the old way were left in the optional rules. Some stuff from later books were rolled in as optional rules (like proficiencies). The to-hit setup and saving throws didn't change a lot, but were pulled over into the realm and responsibility of the player as much as the DM. To me, that's probably worthy of a new edition, sure. But the functions of the game didn't majorly change there. 3E baked in skills more fully, which could be seen as just the next step. But they also started the d20(plus mods)-to-resolve-everything core rules. Combat rounds microsized (from 1 minute of back-and-forth to 6 second actions). Advancement was equalized across the board by removing the class XP charts as well as the non-human level caps. Tactical positioning (AOE, 5-foot-step, etc.) was introduced. I think that was a much bigger leap than to 2nd Edition. 4E... got CCG in my RPG. ;) The biggest change I see there is the breaking down of all the old abilities (attack options, spells, etc.) into their component parts. Where it used to just be spellcasters who had to worry about choices in a huge section of the PHB, now everyone has those lists. That probably leads to simpler core rules, but a list of powers that's absolutely dizzying to consider in total. Again, that seems like a pretty big change to me. Which is not to discount perception and bias, necessarily. ;)
ReplyDelete