Worldly Brainstorming, part 4
Feeling better in general than I have in a few weeks, though I still can't say I'm highly motivated to creative roleplay. Slowly accumulating more fantasy world thoughts to record, though.
Longevity
I mentioned it in passing before and had a little follow-up discussion. So why is such a small point in a setting worthy of such consideration? Well, in the case of a book or campaign, it absolutely isn't. Unless there are supernatural aging effects floating around (2nd Edition AD&D ghosts, for example), it generally doesn't matter if a character is 20 or 60. Adventurers aren't likely to live to a ripe old age anyway.
But in a persistent/ongoing world, such things do have an effect. The phrase "long term plans" doesn't even start to cover it.
Plus, I think a mechanical enforcement actually works along with reality - or believability rather. As I said, I see someone who extends their life through magic as losing their "humanity" (for lack of a better word that conveys the same meaning). Year by year, they become more a creature of magic than a mortal. And if you think about it, that's not so crazy. Someone who's been alive a thousand years really wouldn't be able to view things in the same manner as a normal person. A five year war is nothing to them, a fifty year reign likely unimpressive. Outliving friends, family, structures, and nations would likely make it hard to form attachments after a while. Perception of the world would very likely shift, even without magic, to a viewpoint alien to us. Thus, the rules concept fits well with that.
Magic, Theory
Magic is a force tied to, yet discrete from, the way nature works. Without magic, principles such as aerodynamics and gravity hold true (whether they are understood in the world or not). With magic, all bets are off, and yet magic exists nearly everywhere to some degree. Supernatural beings are, in part, entities of magic, inherently able to violate what might otherwise be considered reality in ways large or small. Every sentient being holds some capacity to wield magic, though scant few can tap their potential without outside influence.
Laws of Magic
I've been thinking more about how to make magic work, and started writing down what it can't do. Of course, this is all subject to revision at this point.
1) Magic functions to sight or sympathy.
Spells can only target what the caster can immediately perceive by touch or sight - hearing is not good enough, considered to be imprecise - or though a powerful sympathetic link. Most sympathetic links must be very specific and in some way imbued with elements they are linked to. Flesh and blood are suitable, but quickly lose their link to the body they came from. Long-held jewelry and such maintain a longer-lasting link with people. Earth from a location is typically not suitable, though prepared and consecrated soil from a church may hold a link with that site. Theories on what causes stronger sympathetic imprints abound, but the result is undeniable. Things such as magic use and powerful or lengthy investment of emotion in a thing or site seem to make for the best links.
This renders most standard scrying less valuable - even if you had a strong enough link to a person, you could only view them, not their surroundings. You can't divine the future because it doesn't have a connection to the present - yet. You could look at the past in some cases, but your view/perception would be limited and there's no way to "instantly download" learnings of the ancients, though you could potentially watch someone being taught (in real time). Teleportation is very limited as well, with the difficulties in getting a strong enough link to a site.
2) Life cannot be returned to the dead.
There are always those that will try, but the law has held true again and again. It is believed that the soul separates from the body on death, losing all sympathetic connection and thus being beyond the reach of spellcraft's ability to reconnect the two. Even attempts to capture a spirit and rebind it to a corpse have met with failure.
Longevity
I mentioned it in passing before and had a little follow-up discussion. So why is such a small point in a setting worthy of such consideration? Well, in the case of a book or campaign, it absolutely isn't. Unless there are supernatural aging effects floating around (2nd Edition AD&D ghosts, for example), it generally doesn't matter if a character is 20 or 60. Adventurers aren't likely to live to a ripe old age anyway.
But in a persistent/ongoing world, such things do have an effect. The phrase "long term plans" doesn't even start to cover it.
Plus, I think a mechanical enforcement actually works along with reality - or believability rather. As I said, I see someone who extends their life through magic as losing their "humanity" (for lack of a better word that conveys the same meaning). Year by year, they become more a creature of magic than a mortal. And if you think about it, that's not so crazy. Someone who's been alive a thousand years really wouldn't be able to view things in the same manner as a normal person. A five year war is nothing to them, a fifty year reign likely unimpressive. Outliving friends, family, structures, and nations would likely make it hard to form attachments after a while. Perception of the world would very likely shift, even without magic, to a viewpoint alien to us. Thus, the rules concept fits well with that.
Magic, Theory
Magic is a force tied to, yet discrete from, the way nature works. Without magic, principles such as aerodynamics and gravity hold true (whether they are understood in the world or not). With magic, all bets are off, and yet magic exists nearly everywhere to some degree. Supernatural beings are, in part, entities of magic, inherently able to violate what might otherwise be considered reality in ways large or small. Every sentient being holds some capacity to wield magic, though scant few can tap their potential without outside influence.
Laws of Magic
I've been thinking more about how to make magic work, and started writing down what it can't do. Of course, this is all subject to revision at this point.
1) Magic functions to sight or sympathy.
Spells can only target what the caster can immediately perceive by touch or sight - hearing is not good enough, considered to be imprecise - or though a powerful sympathetic link. Most sympathetic links must be very specific and in some way imbued with elements they are linked to. Flesh and blood are suitable, but quickly lose their link to the body they came from. Long-held jewelry and such maintain a longer-lasting link with people. Earth from a location is typically not suitable, though prepared and consecrated soil from a church may hold a link with that site. Theories on what causes stronger sympathetic imprints abound, but the result is undeniable. Things such as magic use and powerful or lengthy investment of emotion in a thing or site seem to make for the best links.
This renders most standard scrying less valuable - even if you had a strong enough link to a person, you could only view them, not their surroundings. You can't divine the future because it doesn't have a connection to the present - yet. You could look at the past in some cases, but your view/perception would be limited and there's no way to "instantly download" learnings of the ancients, though you could potentially watch someone being taught (in real time). Teleportation is very limited as well, with the difficulties in getting a strong enough link to a site.
2) Life cannot be returned to the dead.
There are always those that will try, but the law has held true again and again. It is believed that the soul separates from the body on death, losing all sympathetic connection and thus being beyond the reach of spellcraft's ability to reconnect the two. Even attempts to capture a spirit and rebind it to a corpse have met with failure.
Some interesting concepts. I have to only partially agree on the age aspect however. Giving it some thought, I could see longevity magics being imprecise during a 'middle ages' sort of setting, but as knowledge and technology increase, it would most likely become more and more do-able. In a more modern-ish setting, where people have deciphered what causes aging, it can become more likely that such things would be able to be undone. Damage to a person's DNA, cell fatigue, and all those nice things could probably be fixed on a cellular and genetic level. Mind you, I fully agree with the idea that the person would become alien in mindset perhaps. Or perhaps not. The older a person's memories, the less reliable they become. Can a person who can live 500 years remember clearly what happened 50 or 100 years ago? Probably not so much. You have long periods of time with nothing happening, and snippets of exciting moments which are now only vague impressions rather than great details. For example: Could I tell you all the details of my wedding and reception? Hell no. One of the most important events in my life, and all I have are impressions and a few images -- but I'd never be able to put it into a proper narrative. That was, what, ten years ago?
ReplyDeleteThis really kills the idea of esoteric spells -- spells which affect concepts rather than the material world. A spell to cure disease would be less likely to work because nobody knows what a disease actually is. A spell to create an enhanced sense wouldn't likely work if you don't know what the sense is. Samantha asked a few questions as well: If a spell has an area of effect, and someone is within the area but unseen, would they still be affected? (she was thinking 'cover', specifically). The other thing we discussed was rituals to augment or degrade concepts. An object has a sympathetic link - can you make a spell which enhances the sympathetic link? Can you forge an artificial sympathetic link? She also mentioned this doesn't prevent 'hopping' spells. A spell which creates an effect. The effect becomes 'ground zero' due to sympathy, to create a new effect which enhances the initial area of effect. (this spell creates a blast of fire at Point X. From Point X, it unleashes a secondary effect at 'sight' range to Point Y.)
ReplyDeleteIf you've ever looked at Legion of Super Heroes, you'll know of a guy named Brainiac 5. The guy is so intelligent and intuitive, he knows what will happen before it happens, simply because of statistics. (In the modern age, he's using an advanced version of statistical psychology). In theory, using the rule of probability, a mage might be able to determine what happened in the past. The spell uses the people in the immediate vicinity, and based on current activities, determines the most likely set of outcomes that would have gotten them to this point. It would combine this with psychometry -- reading the history of the people themselves. Get a large enough sample, and you get a clearer image of 'what has been'. In the same vein, you could work forward. Based on prior actions of those present and their most likely actions based on stimuli, you can predict the most likely actions of a group. The more information you have to work with, the more accurate it becomes and the more you can pare it down to individuals. It isn't precognition -- but most people would be hard pressed to tell the difference.
ReplyDeleteAll in the details, of course. As I'm currently envisioning... - You don't have to "see" the disease to cure it, necessarily, you have to see the diseased person. So curing one person is fine, curing everyone probably isn't going to work (though an amped up, supernatural disease might be its own sympathetic link). - How would you grant a sense if you don't know what it is anyway? Shouldn't you at least need to be able to conceptualize what you're trying to do? - Cover sort of depends. A blast/wave/rain would have to start in a zone you can target, but the effect might go beyond what you can initially see. You could potentially do mortar-like spells, but you couldn't specifically target someone on the other side of a wall. - Well, "hopping" might be doable in some senses, with lots of complication. But targetting is based on the caster's line of sight. Even if you have a sympathetic point, you don't get line of sight from that, just that point as an additional possible target. Generate sympathy at point X and you can turn around and cast a spell at point X, not from point X.
ReplyDeleteSounds complicated. It's a lot of data to process, and the caster probably is never going to understand all the variables to a full degree. And even so, what it really gives you is the most likely future based on what you've included. I have trouble wrapping my mind around working this as a spell, so I'm not sure it needs to be specifically address. At this point, my reaction is "sounds like a theoretical way to get a read of the likely future, yeah, but with no guarantee it'll be accurate."
ReplyDeleteA good example would be the spell 'dark sight'. Allows you to see at night like a cat. You've no idea how a cat sees, just that it can see in the dark. Re: Hopping. Spell location X which you cast a spell on has a sympathetic link to you, due to you being the caster of the spell. Point X now unleashes a spell at Point Y, because X is in line of sight of Y, and has a sympathetic connection to you. Your 'range' of sight is extended from Point X. In essence, this is somewhat like a mortar spell. 'I can see location Y, so I will have a spell initiate at location Y, and have it 'extend a blast of lightning 50 feet west from this point'.
ReplyDeleteThat's the fun thing about magic. You don't necessarily have to sweat the details. 'The spell works on these principles, and does the work for you. You just get the conclusions'. ;) Just like you don't need to know the engineering behind creating a ball of fire which explodes people messily, you don't need to know the engineering behind the details of the spell, the principles are there, the spell handles the load bearing aspect of it. :)
ReplyDeleteI don't think I'd written anything up there yet about "you must intimately understand how the spell effect works to be able to make it work," so I'm not sure where the question is coming from. As for sympathetic bouncing, reread the last line of my previous reply. Multiple times, if necessary. ;)
ReplyDeleteWhen you first started this idea, my thought was: "Magic. The only way gun kata could actually work." ;)
ReplyDeleteActually, yeah. I can see that.
ReplyDeleteMy current thought is tying it together with the inability to raise the dead. Paint it as threads of fate cut to a certain length, or "the gods declare your time," or just the bond of soul to flesh breaking down over time. However you look at it, maintaining physical youth might be doable with magical understanding of the body, but actually extending life requires strengthening or replacing the tie the soul has with the body. That metaphysical side is where the growing dependency on magic to support that bond comes in. Thus, magic could be used to sustain life, but you'd end up with something more akin to a lich (though they may or may not look the part) than a human - an unnatural being more of magic than "humanity."
ReplyDeleteAh, now you're moving into religion. Which is fine, actually. I prefer magic tied to theology or society.
ReplyDelete