(WoW) Ow
We dipping into heroic Ahn'Kahet: the Old Kingdom last night after Shadowrun.
We wiped on the first boss three or four times before giving up. But, we've done this before, right? And didn't have nearly this trouble. So what went wrong? As ever, my perspective is limited, but I suspect multiple factors:
- Inexperience. I think the two of us with the most experience in that dungeon were Dem (who previously hasn't tanked it much if at all) and myself (who hasn't healed in that dungeon before). I don't think it was completely new to anyone, but someone commented only having done it a couple times before.
- Use of alts. At least three of us were playing characters we usually don't in heroic runs. This ties into the above and...
- Gear. Most of the group was decently gear for heroic dungeons, but there were some points that might be weak.
What happened? Mostly, the the small adds (skirmishers, I think?) mauled me while the guardian add (who makes everything else immune until he dies) was up. I died. I died. I accidentally let the tank die because I was trying not to draw too much aggro, then I died. I ran low on mana, used a potion, then died. Something of a theme. And when the healer dies, a boss fight is pretty much a loss (unless the boss is almost dead and/or someone else can heal).
I'm very critical of playing Reya as a healer. I'm still pretty new to the whole holy priest thing. I've only healed through two heroics dungeons, I think. And yet, I don't feel the wipes were a failure on the healing front. I don't like placing blame, partly because I don't know what everyone else* was seeing, but the DPS classes were urged to keep the adds off me, and I still died. I know the recommendation wasn't totally overlooked, as I clearly remember seeing the rogue by me with fan of knives shortly before I bit it one time. So... I don't know.
I'm not encouraged by the Recount numbers. Recount is a little addon that tracks things like damage and healing done. It's probably most often referenced to track damage-per-second done by characters. This is a measuring tool. It is not perfect. Tanks will be on the low end of such charts. Healers will be close to non-existant (though sometimes they slip in a little damage here and there). DPS classes, by their nature, should all be on top. As far as comparing results to what people on the web say about "you should be doing X in heroics," that usually means against bosses. Fights against trash are brief and, for some classes at least, don't give a chance to get up to full output.
Also, some fights will result in lower numbers. If you have to move a lot? That's less time spent dealing damage. Some bosses have adds that you deliberately try to avoid dealing damage to, or themselves require DPS to hold off during certain phases - both of these will bring numbers down. If you were DPSing heavily one moment, then had to switch to helping the healer keep the tank alive, that will drop numbers. There are a lot of factors involved, so "so-and-so only did X DPS" should always be taken with a grain of salt.
That said, I find the DPS numbers for the fight with Elder Nadox a little troubling:
- I put in somewhere around 0-100. Yeah, more "token" damage than anything - killing a few of the little adds coming at my while they were vulnerable mostly.
- The tank was roughly in the 800's. That's about what I expect, and a ballpark I'm used to seeing when I tank.
- Our rogue clocked in around 1500. Again, this seems acceptable. They've got more/higher tier armor than most of the guild due to time spent raiding with another guild.
- The other two DPS, a mage and a hunter, scored in a range from about 700-900, with the mage just barely clearing 1000 in one of the attempts. That's where I'm concerned. When 2/3 of the DPS characters of the party are putting out roughly the same amount of damage as the tank, that's far from ideal. Boss fights will drag, and things that might otherwise be fairly easy become taxing - healer mana runs low, potions get used, etc.
But... while I can look at those numbers and say "this run is going to be rough at best," I can't actually say why. Was there too much confusion in the fight that they were losing track of what was going on? Did they feel a deliberate need to hold back? Are they not using an ability that would help? Is their gear "not good enough?" There's a whole host of possible reasons. Some of them are easy to fix, some aren't. Either way, the only person who knows most of those details is the person playing the character.
And heavens know I don't want this to sound like I'm saying you there, it's your fault, shape up! I'm not a confrontational person, and I know many of our guildmembers are "more casual" than I. So I don't want to make people feel forced to outfit or play their character a certain way. But in order to avoid failing out of dungeons like this in the future, we will have to do something better. How can I best help?
* Actually, I know exactly what Dem was seeing. Elder Nadox is very big and in-the-way of a tank's view, making it especially hard for them to switch targets.
We wiped on the first boss three or four times before giving up. But, we've done this before, right? And didn't have nearly this trouble. So what went wrong? As ever, my perspective is limited, but I suspect multiple factors:
- Inexperience. I think the two of us with the most experience in that dungeon were Dem (who previously hasn't tanked it much if at all) and myself (who hasn't healed in that dungeon before). I don't think it was completely new to anyone, but someone commented only having done it a couple times before.
- Use of alts. At least three of us were playing characters we usually don't in heroic runs. This ties into the above and...
- Gear. Most of the group was decently gear for heroic dungeons, but there were some points that might be weak.
What happened? Mostly, the the small adds (skirmishers, I think?) mauled me while the guardian add (who makes everything else immune until he dies) was up. I died. I died. I accidentally let the tank die because I was trying not to draw too much aggro, then I died. I ran low on mana, used a potion, then died. Something of a theme. And when the healer dies, a boss fight is pretty much a loss (unless the boss is almost dead and/or someone else can heal).
I'm very critical of playing Reya as a healer. I'm still pretty new to the whole holy priest thing. I've only healed through two heroics dungeons, I think. And yet, I don't feel the wipes were a failure on the healing front. I don't like placing blame, partly because I don't know what everyone else* was seeing, but the DPS classes were urged to keep the adds off me, and I still died. I know the recommendation wasn't totally overlooked, as I clearly remember seeing the rogue by me with fan of knives shortly before I bit it one time. So... I don't know.
I'm not encouraged by the Recount numbers. Recount is a little addon that tracks things like damage and healing done. It's probably most often referenced to track damage-per-second done by characters. This is a measuring tool. It is not perfect. Tanks will be on the low end of such charts. Healers will be close to non-existant (though sometimes they slip in a little damage here and there). DPS classes, by their nature, should all be on top. As far as comparing results to what people on the web say about "you should be doing X in heroics," that usually means against bosses. Fights against trash are brief and, for some classes at least, don't give a chance to get up to full output.
Also, some fights will result in lower numbers. If you have to move a lot? That's less time spent dealing damage. Some bosses have adds that you deliberately try to avoid dealing damage to, or themselves require DPS to hold off during certain phases - both of these will bring numbers down. If you were DPSing heavily one moment, then had to switch to helping the healer keep the tank alive, that will drop numbers. There are a lot of factors involved, so "so-and-so only did X DPS" should always be taken with a grain of salt.
That said, I find the DPS numbers for the fight with Elder Nadox a little troubling:
- I put in somewhere around 0-100. Yeah, more "token" damage than anything - killing a few of the little adds coming at my while they were vulnerable mostly.
- The tank was roughly in the 800's. That's about what I expect, and a ballpark I'm used to seeing when I tank.
- Our rogue clocked in around 1500. Again, this seems acceptable. They've got more/higher tier armor than most of the guild due to time spent raiding with another guild.
- The other two DPS, a mage and a hunter, scored in a range from about 700-900, with the mage just barely clearing 1000 in one of the attempts. That's where I'm concerned. When 2/3 of the DPS characters of the party are putting out roughly the same amount of damage as the tank, that's far from ideal. Boss fights will drag, and things that might otherwise be fairly easy become taxing - healer mana runs low, potions get used, etc.
But... while I can look at those numbers and say "this run is going to be rough at best," I can't actually say why. Was there too much confusion in the fight that they were losing track of what was going on? Did they feel a deliberate need to hold back? Are they not using an ability that would help? Is their gear "not good enough?" There's a whole host of possible reasons. Some of them are easy to fix, some aren't. Either way, the only person who knows most of those details is the person playing the character.
And heavens know I don't want this to sound like I'm saying you there, it's your fault, shape up! I'm not a confrontational person, and I know many of our guildmembers are "more casual" than I. So I don't want to make people feel forced to outfit or play their character a certain way. But in order to avoid failing out of dungeons like this in the future, we will have to do something better. How can I best help?
* Actually, I know exactly what Dem was seeing. Elder Nadox is very big and in-the-way of a tank's view, making it especially hard for them to switch targets.
Sorry I wasn't around for the run... There's barely been anyone one, though, when I have been able to get on to WoW. o.o So... I've been spending my time watching Anime. o.o;;
ReplyDeleteThe last couple weeks seem to have been a lull in general with people going to conventions, events, or vacations. We had about five people on when I logged on last night, and another two showed up shortly thereafter. So maybe things are picking back up a bit, or maybe you're schedule is just out of whack compared to others. ;) I haven't been spending quite as much time on as normaly myself in the last couple weeks. Kyn was over for a long weekend, and I've been a little "meh' toward the routine of doing dailies since.
ReplyDelete