A Jedi, a Sith, and a Mandalorian Walk Into a Bar...
Disclaimer: This post revolves around a roleplaying game that might be run, but it is entirely theoretical at this point. No assumptions should be made, but opinions are asked.
Having played the Force Unleashed demo and gotten my copy of the SW: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide recently, the game-that-never-was is on my mind a bit. But also alternative thoughts. And so I'm hoping to tap some opinions beyond my own.
If I were to run a Star Wars game, what would you want to see?
What era do you prefer to play in, and why? What sort of character would you want to play? What sorts of adventures would you want to undertake? What sorts of opponents would you want to face? All of that stuff.
I tend to favor the thought of playing in the KotOR era. Why? No Lucas! ... Okay, that's not entirely correct.
It's more precise to say that I feel the time frame of the movies is too limiting. The big events are laid out, so there's less room to be creative, at least in an epic sense. And while I find the Clone Wars to be fascinating in terms of how the Jedi coped, it suffers from similar constraints.
The Knights of the Old Republic era is a little different. Sure, major events have been played out in the games and comics, but there are literally thousands of years afterward that haven't been filled in. I also like that the Jedi are (barring a couple theoretical near-extinction events) numerous, varied, and closer to my thoughts on what they should, "realistically," be. Yoda was, for all his greatness, a tradition-bound idealist who refused to acknowledge "human" nature in his teachings.
And then there's the Jedi matter. I'm torn on this. Jedi stand out, to some extent, but they're also central to that which is Star Wars. The old d6 game made Jedi out to be inexperienced or washed-up, which fit for the Rebellion era but sorta seemed to miss the point. In the first d20 game, Jedi were largely seen as superior to non-Force-users - a more accurate portrayal with what was shown in the prequel movies and such, but unbalancing in a game. I'm told Saga Edition smooths things out some, though I'm not sure I believe it. I tend to feel that putting Jedi in a game means those PCs will be capable of more in whatever ways.
So what's the best way to deal with that in a game? Limit the number of Jedi? That seems like selecting players for favoritism. Allow everyone to play Jedi? That's feasible in KotOR/Clone Wars games, but I worry that the "sameness" between characters may be a drawback. Should a GM go out of his way to cater to any non-Force-using characters sometimes if the others seem to shine in most cases without help?
There's also an issue of player base. This one tripped me up a lot when I actually tried to run a game. I tend to feel one PC doesn't make a game worth calling a campaign. Two PCs generates a "buddy" scenario (where the characters settle into roles and play off each other in predictable ways) which isn't necessarily bad, but it's not quite what I favor. Three PCs is about my target, I think. It's a manageable size while allowing for some variety in character interaction. More than that starts to get difficult to deal with, especially online, though it's not so bad that four is immediately out of the question.
But getting three players online who are interested, available, familiar to me, and can play well together seems beyond reach.
Having played the Force Unleashed demo and gotten my copy of the SW: Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide recently, the game-that-never-was is on my mind a bit. But also alternative thoughts. And so I'm hoping to tap some opinions beyond my own.
If I were to run a Star Wars game, what would you want to see?
What era do you prefer to play in, and why? What sort of character would you want to play? What sorts of adventures would you want to undertake? What sorts of opponents would you want to face? All of that stuff.
I tend to favor the thought of playing in the KotOR era. Why? No Lucas! ... Okay, that's not entirely correct.
It's more precise to say that I feel the time frame of the movies is too limiting. The big events are laid out, so there's less room to be creative, at least in an epic sense. And while I find the Clone Wars to be fascinating in terms of how the Jedi coped, it suffers from similar constraints.
The Knights of the Old Republic era is a little different. Sure, major events have been played out in the games and comics, but there are literally thousands of years afterward that haven't been filled in. I also like that the Jedi are (barring a couple theoretical near-extinction events) numerous, varied, and closer to my thoughts on what they should, "realistically," be. Yoda was, for all his greatness, a tradition-bound idealist who refused to acknowledge "human" nature in his teachings.
And then there's the Jedi matter. I'm torn on this. Jedi stand out, to some extent, but they're also central to that which is Star Wars. The old d6 game made Jedi out to be inexperienced or washed-up, which fit for the Rebellion era but sorta seemed to miss the point. In the first d20 game, Jedi were largely seen as superior to non-Force-users - a more accurate portrayal with what was shown in the prequel movies and such, but unbalancing in a game. I'm told Saga Edition smooths things out some, though I'm not sure I believe it. I tend to feel that putting Jedi in a game means those PCs will be capable of more in whatever ways.
So what's the best way to deal with that in a game? Limit the number of Jedi? That seems like selecting players for favoritism. Allow everyone to play Jedi? That's feasible in KotOR/Clone Wars games, but I worry that the "sameness" between characters may be a drawback. Should a GM go out of his way to cater to any non-Force-using characters sometimes if the others seem to shine in most cases without help?
There's also an issue of player base. This one tripped me up a lot when I actually tried to run a game. I tend to feel one PC doesn't make a game worth calling a campaign. Two PCs generates a "buddy" scenario (where the characters settle into roles and play off each other in predictable ways) which isn't necessarily bad, but it's not quite what I favor. Three PCs is about my target, I think. It's a manageable size while allowing for some variety in character interaction. More than that starts to get difficult to deal with, especially online, though it's not so bad that four is immediately out of the question.
But getting three players online who are interested, available, familiar to me, and can play well together seems beyond reach.
Hmm. I have to agree, I think KotoR may be the best time period to play in, or immediately following it. I don't know the time period that well, but that might be one of the benefits of it, the 'open-ness' of it. I've run Star Wars in the 'pre Episode IV' time, which isn't too bad either, though it makes Jedi sufficiently rare. I'd probably want to play Deveron, my Jedi. I'd have no problem starting him fresh, it has been ages since I've had the chance to use him (14+ years!) and I'd like to see how my play style has changed since then. Alternatively, I could look at other avenues and consider what else to do, but I did enjoy playing the daisho-techniqued Jedi before it was popular. :) For setting, hmm. The political game is fun, it has been a while since I've done that, but I don't know enough about the KotoR setting to really come up with more except for perhaps 'exploring'. Re: Jedi. I don't see multiple-jedi being a problem. What first comes to mind is 'they're serving the Jedi Council' and thus you have a higher up who can immediately direct them where you want them to go. This isn't a bad thing, really, and any non-Jedi are probably friends or co-workers sent to give them a hand. Instant-Party Mix. ;) I looked over the Jedi with SAGA edition, and so far they seem pretty balanced. They aren't suffering mage syndrome like D&D has, where they start weaker than everyone then overshadow everyone later. The... player conflicts? I'm not sure I can give much advice for that.
ReplyDeletethe only reason to run a game in the time of the movies is for the name-dropping. "You've been assigned to work alongside Kit Falbo", "Over there is that Skywalker kid, he may not look like much, but he sunk the shot that blew up the Death Star." and so on. If you want the game to focus on the PCs without being overshadowed (much) by the 'Names', and they get to do more important things with wider application, KotOR is excellent. (Another game example you might not understand, but Kit will is running an L5R game. If you do it during Clan Wars era, there's big names everywhere for PCs to deal with. Run the game pre-Clan War and the PCs are more agents of change and activity, without meeting so many 'Names' (unless the GM wants to show the important people in their childhood)) One thing that comes up is, "It's Star Wars, who -doesn't- wanna be a Jedi?" They're the magicians, the bad-ass warriors, the diplomats for the central authority (the Republic) and generally the best of the best. Option 1) Everyone's a Jedi. While there is hetereogenious mixes of Force-powers, there's six different sword/martial art styles taught to Jedi, in addition, not -everyone- is a Force-pushing mind-reader. Some metagaming might be necessary at chargen. (Oh, you're playing Jedi X with this and that power? Cool, then I'll be Jedi Y, with some other powers) Option 2) No one's a Jedi. Heavy-handed and sort of taking the fun out of playing in an SW game, but also more logical. Not everyone was Force-sensitive, and even then, few get selected to be Jedi. Option 3) The mix between. Jedi are going to outstrip non-Jedi if the game puts the PCs into situations the Jedi favor. This takes metagaming to alleviate. Is one of the Jedi an expert at lightsaber fighting and piloting? Okay, make sure the other PCs can handle mechanics, navigation, diplomacy and puzzle-solving. Is the Jedi a consular, master of words? Then let the PCs be the bodyguard entourage. Maybe even be a spy, going places the Jedi cannot due to his training and internal war against 'giving in to the Dark Side'. Mmm.. inter-player disputes? Generally the pre-game chargen session allows players to voice their concerns against one another and allow you, as GM, to set the tone and theme of your game, what you will or will not tolerate.
ReplyDeleteSome metagaming might be necessary at chargen. I think this may be the ideal case in most games, actually. Too often I see characters that are generated independent of one another overlap uncomfortably or conflict. I've come to think a group "character creation" session prior to actual play may be the best way to go in any RPG. As for the three options... yeah, those are there. Which do you prefer, and are there any specific reasons for it? Alternatively to KotOR, I could split the difference and place something in the 3000-year (give or take a bunch as I'm not looking up a timeline at the moment) gap between that and Bane's time when there's essentially nothing set in stone.
ReplyDeleteI think the worry with Jedi is less "mage syndrome" and more that they tend to be better from start to finish. Though, again, I've heard that SE is better about balancing that. >.>
ReplyDeleteSecond comment answered first, I'm cool with that. The less 'canon' one has to worry about, the less Lore-mongering there is. As for what of my three options I prefer? Option 1, actually. If there's to be Jedi, lets let everyone have a lightsaber and solve the problems of the world as the Council's lap dogs. Yes, I've made lots of character concepts that aren't Jedi, but if one person wants to be one, then everyone should be one -unless- you can pull off option 3 with a mature group willing to work together in a party to cover individual character weaknesses. Jedi are awesome, but they can't do everything.
ReplyDeletePolitical, eh? Hmm. Well, the Senate is still around and there are some corporation versus government themes in the games/comics. Of course, one might argue politics is more the province of the noble class, but I suppose there's no reason Jedi can't get involved in some fashion.
ReplyDeleteJedi are awesome, but they can't do everything. Actually... they sorta can. That's why they've been too good in some games. A fantasy mage is usually fragile on the physical side of things, but has mystical powers. Jedi are sort of the best of both worlds. Now, if the rules are sufficiently balance, the real difference is that there are things other classes do better, but Jedi can still do everything (in the sense that they can potentially do any skill-based stuff well and perform all basic actions even if they don't have some of the bonuses/talents that other classes have to help in some areas). And as I've said, I hope SW:SE does a fair job of balancing in practice, but ultimately Jedi are hard to balance because they're presented as "people who are good at normal things PLUS they have all this Force stuff." Though if all the PCs are Jedi, that's less of a problem. Do you think voicing concerns at a pre-game session would prevent certain problems we've had in the past? Any other thoughts on what you'd want to see in such a game? Enemies/challenges faced? Adventure flavor? Party dynamics?
ReplyDeleteWas sort of thinking that not every Jedi is capable of diplomacy, AND has a slew of Force powers at their disposal (usually just one or two), AND is a great pilot, AND ... you get the idea I hope. I always think a pre-game chat with everyone about all potential problems is good. Players hiding secrets tends to make me bristle. Unless there's a real good reason for their character to have some secret thing the player wants to reveal through game play, I think everyone should be laid open on the table. This can be as detailed as their backstory to as simple as, "I'm playing a Mandalorian guerrilla warrior." Any other thoughts on what you'd want to see in such a game? If all Jedi, then the 'greying' between Light and Dark. What is morally questionable to do 'for the good of the Empire'. If a mixed bag, then maybe the non-Force sensitive need to be instructed into -why- the Dark Side is such a horrible thing through observation of the Jedi (Though if the JEdi in question are courting Dark Side themselves, this could prove... interesting). Enemies/challenges faced? No rancor monsters at the beginning? ;) Uhm. A smart villian or pair, with enough resources at their disposal to continue to present a galactic threat (or else why are the PC's put in conflict?) but not so much devoted to wipe out the first sign of meddlers. Adventure flavor? Blasters going and lightsabers flashing, planet hopping to seek clues about our mission, seeing strange new alien races and forging alliances as representatives of the Republic. Party dynamics? One Tank, one healer and 3 DPS? Uhm.. as often as games use the trope of 'So you all meet in a bar' I'd like to, through the pre-game, establish relationships between characters ahead of time. Family/married/friends/clones of/whatever.
ReplyDeleteOne Tank, one healer and 3 DPS? Uhm.. as often as games use the trope of 'So you all meet in a bar' I'd like to, through the pre-game, establish relationships between characters ahead of time. Family/married/friends/clones of/whatever. Always, for the love of MMORPGs, a healer! ;) I kinda think that's less a role in SW:SE, though there are still Force healing effects as I recall. If the PCs are Jedi, though, that makes starting them together particularly easy as students of the same master/academy or somesuch. That's a clear advantage of going that way instead of a mixxed group.
ReplyDeleteWell, for my two bits, I'd say go with all Jedi. Gives the group an already set camraderie and similar enough backgrounds that there 'shouldn't' be TOO much friction. Other characters/classes/whatever can be NPCed. Personally, also love the KotOR era due to things being more open (IE No Lucas), and well, having played the games, just made it more of an immersible era to play in.
ReplyDeleteI'm not thinking everyone has to be a Jedi, there's a lot of ways around it. Some NPC has requested Jedi assistance to work in tandem with other people. Or the Jedi Council requests some people to assist one or two Jedi to do some job. Etc, etc. Happily enough, I've finished chargen months ago.
ReplyDeleteWell, no, I'm not saying everying has to be a Jedi, but players usually favor that and making it possible helps. I mean, after all, do you want to play a non-Jedi? Last I checked with the character you had in mind, the answer would be "no." ;)
ReplyDeleteSo no other thoughts on... I dunno. Anything? Party composition has been discussed, but no thoughts on size? Or... errand-running for superiors versus open-world freedom?
ReplyDelete