(no subject)
Picked up a helmet, and lights in case I decide to ride at night... but I haven't actually ridden my bike much yet. I'm waiting on a shifter to come in so I can actually change primary gears. That'll be another $25 give or take.
I may be spending a couple days on a trip to Albuquerque with my dad to catch a Minor League baseball game or two. We haven't done that in years, and it's a good excuse to get away from things briefly.
And I'm trying to wrap my mind around things in roleplaying. Maybe I'm just less flexible than I used to be, but some of this gives me a headache.
Okay, so we've a fantasy world that is not only polytheistic, but polypantheonic (if that's a word). In real life, that "works" because no one knows for sure - oh, they might believe and have unwavering faith, but I've yet to see any convincing proof that Event X is a result of divine intervention. In the game, that's not the case. Divine-created miracles happen at the call of a priest and they even have a certain "feel" about them so they can't be confused with sorcery (a detail which seems unnecessary to me).
So in this world, we have multiple faiths (inspired, to varying degrees, by real life ones).
-We've one religion headed by a single deity whose followers believe it is the only true god, and others are merely "powerful spirits." This seems to ignore the fact that miracles performed by any deity have a similar feel that is distinct from other metaphysical powers. It also seems to gloss over the fact in the history saying the world was remade in its current form by one of the other deities. Heck, looking at the facts, the only thing that might support their claim is their god doesn't directly manifest like others do - and that could be interpreted as just the opposite. And, at the moment, I can't recall their afterlife views.
-Then we have a mishmash pantheon headed by said world-creator and including some imported/refugee gods from another world that is dying. There's been some changeover here with at least one divine figure dying and a couple others being elevated from mortal status (or, one could argue, recognized as having been divine all along). These gods deal with mortals with relative frequency - to an extent that makes them hard to think of as "gods" rather than "really powerful people." They may have a divine spark and perform miracles through followers, but there is relatively little sense of otherness/divinity about them in principle (even if they have an overwhelming presence upon mortals if they want to). Their "afterlife" is generally one of reincarnation, with souls being cleansed and sent back to a new life.
-We also have the Celestial Courts, which seem mostly a mirror of their mortal followers' Oriental-style realms. Some spiritual beings serve in both at the same time, the spirits of the dead there lounge, study, and forge weapons for war with other spirit-realms not unlike their mortal counterparts. In fact, there's very little that seems heavenly/divine about it. Their gods are practically viewed as "powerful spirits" even by the Courts themselves. So their afterlife is... pretty much more life. Makes me wonder what the after-afterlife is.
-And I'm probably missing others, including not knowing how to classify the shamanistic "spirits everywhere" beliefs.
What frustrates me, is somehow they are all "correct." The monotheistic followers play down miracles of others... but the celestial "okami" are gods too - that one in particular bugs me. Conflicting believes, all given miraculous support from above, have existed side-by-side for hundreds of years without breaking or seeing eye-to-eye. Some mortal blood was shed, but it's almost as though all the divinities are looking at one another and snickering at some private joke. And what happens when a mortal dies? Well, that seems to depend on their faith... and where they died... maybe even who catches their soul first or something. Ugh.
I prefer a setting that goes with either "this is the way it really is" or, the more realistic, "nobody can actually prove what's true with the gods/afterlife." This whole "believe what you like, you're all correct" stuff is annoying to try to grasp.
Another point that frequently bugs me is being told "here's how things are" either directly or laid out in thousands of years of history, and then change being suddenly embraced.
Okay, "long-distance magical portals have not been set up to make trade and travel between cities easier." "Why? It's possible. Ah, security reasons. Well, I think that's about as silly as modern nations giving up air travel because of security concerns, but if that's the way it is I guess I can accept it." And yet, no one bats an eye when explorers to distant lands create a permanent portal back to their home city. ... Isn't that what I asked about to begin with, only without the profit margin (and better knowledge of the endpoints)? What the hell?
Not to mention trade still being conducted by caravan and ocean-going vessels. And yet NPCs show up with a flying ship for convenience. And when it's lost, another is made. Plus there's the plane-travel ship(s) that have been made. And then there was reference to a possible fleet of flying ships one nation had. ... Okay, if they're coming out of the woodwork, why aren't they being used to replace/supplement ground and sea travel again? Magic has been around for ages, and there is really no new technology involved. So what the hell?
And there was the whole decision to make a central, in-land city a port all of a sudden with no real explanation as to how or why. I heard some theory of how this massive engineering project could happen, but didn't see anything posted or added to the history, it was just assumed. The reason why is a lot fuzzier. As seen above, magic can provide easier travel options than hundreds of miles of canal to navigate to the ocean (which means it's probably faster to travel over land to any of the major nations on the continent anyway). What. The. Hell?
In a world with magic, I can accept a lot. Heck, I even try to work around things like this. I expect a certain amount of internal consistency, though, that I find lacking in some things. Often, it feels like a matter of "wouldn't it be cool to introduce this" without any thought on what it means to the setting and why such things haven't happened before.
Urgh.
There, I think I'm done venting for the moment.
I may be spending a couple days on a trip to Albuquerque with my dad to catch a Minor League baseball game or two. We haven't done that in years, and it's a good excuse to get away from things briefly.
And I'm trying to wrap my mind around things in roleplaying. Maybe I'm just less flexible than I used to be, but some of this gives me a headache.
Okay, so we've a fantasy world that is not only polytheistic, but polypantheonic (if that's a word). In real life, that "works" because no one knows for sure - oh, they might believe and have unwavering faith, but I've yet to see any convincing proof that Event X is a result of divine intervention. In the game, that's not the case. Divine-created miracles happen at the call of a priest and they even have a certain "feel" about them so they can't be confused with sorcery (a detail which seems unnecessary to me).
So in this world, we have multiple faiths (inspired, to varying degrees, by real life ones).
-We've one religion headed by a single deity whose followers believe it is the only true god, and others are merely "powerful spirits." This seems to ignore the fact that miracles performed by any deity have a similar feel that is distinct from other metaphysical powers. It also seems to gloss over the fact in the history saying the world was remade in its current form by one of the other deities. Heck, looking at the facts, the only thing that might support their claim is their god doesn't directly manifest like others do - and that could be interpreted as just the opposite. And, at the moment, I can't recall their afterlife views.
-Then we have a mishmash pantheon headed by said world-creator and including some imported/refugee gods from another world that is dying. There's been some changeover here with at least one divine figure dying and a couple others being elevated from mortal status (or, one could argue, recognized as having been divine all along). These gods deal with mortals with relative frequency - to an extent that makes them hard to think of as "gods" rather than "really powerful people." They may have a divine spark and perform miracles through followers, but there is relatively little sense of otherness/divinity about them in principle (even if they have an overwhelming presence upon mortals if they want to). Their "afterlife" is generally one of reincarnation, with souls being cleansed and sent back to a new life.
-We also have the Celestial Courts, which seem mostly a mirror of their mortal followers' Oriental-style realms. Some spiritual beings serve in both at the same time, the spirits of the dead there lounge, study, and forge weapons for war with other spirit-realms not unlike their mortal counterparts. In fact, there's very little that seems heavenly/divine about it. Their gods are practically viewed as "powerful spirits" even by the Courts themselves. So their afterlife is... pretty much more life. Makes me wonder what the after-afterlife is.
-And I'm probably missing others, including not knowing how to classify the shamanistic "spirits everywhere" beliefs.
What frustrates me, is somehow they are all "correct." The monotheistic followers play down miracles of others... but the celestial "okami" are gods too - that one in particular bugs me. Conflicting believes, all given miraculous support from above, have existed side-by-side for hundreds of years without breaking or seeing eye-to-eye. Some mortal blood was shed, but it's almost as though all the divinities are looking at one another and snickering at some private joke. And what happens when a mortal dies? Well, that seems to depend on their faith... and where they died... maybe even who catches their soul first or something. Ugh.
I prefer a setting that goes with either "this is the way it really is" or, the more realistic, "nobody can actually prove what's true with the gods/afterlife." This whole "believe what you like, you're all correct" stuff is annoying to try to grasp.
Another point that frequently bugs me is being told "here's how things are" either directly or laid out in thousands of years of history, and then change being suddenly embraced.
Okay, "long-distance magical portals have not been set up to make trade and travel between cities easier." "Why? It's possible. Ah, security reasons. Well, I think that's about as silly as modern nations giving up air travel because of security concerns, but if that's the way it is I guess I can accept it." And yet, no one bats an eye when explorers to distant lands create a permanent portal back to their home city. ... Isn't that what I asked about to begin with, only without the profit margin (and better knowledge of the endpoints)? What the hell?
Not to mention trade still being conducted by caravan and ocean-going vessels. And yet NPCs show up with a flying ship for convenience. And when it's lost, another is made. Plus there's the plane-travel ship(s) that have been made. And then there was reference to a possible fleet of flying ships one nation had. ... Okay, if they're coming out of the woodwork, why aren't they being used to replace/supplement ground and sea travel again? Magic has been around for ages, and there is really no new technology involved. So what the hell?
And there was the whole decision to make a central, in-land city a port all of a sudden with no real explanation as to how or why. I heard some theory of how this massive engineering project could happen, but didn't see anything posted or added to the history, it was just assumed. The reason why is a lot fuzzier. As seen above, magic can provide easier travel options than hundreds of miles of canal to navigate to the ocean (which means it's probably faster to travel over land to any of the major nations on the continent anyway). What. The. Hell?
In a world with magic, I can accept a lot. Heck, I even try to work around things like this. I expect a certain amount of internal consistency, though, that I find lacking in some things. Often, it feels like a matter of "wouldn't it be cool to introduce this" without any thought on what it means to the setting and why such things haven't happened before.
Urgh.
There, I think I'm done venting for the moment.
One NPC had a regular flying ship, and he was technically a pirate. His daughter is in the process of having one built, but that one is taking a long time to get finished. The aether ships are being tested, and the results have been, so far, catastrophic. The inland port at West Lake would be so people in the Shire can sail west and get out onto the western coast by river, without having to hike through the Anaithan Woods.
ReplyDeleteAnd here I thought it was Jacob's sister, and it was done-ish? Plus I also have some vague recollection of Anaithan flying ships (attacking a Tarantis shipment maybe?). And when you consider it takes about 1 DP to drop a permanent Flight effect on something, it's awful cheap (albeit potentially vulnerable to dispelling). Why this is such a rare concept is still beyond me. I briefly considered having Cyra make one for the Shire until the material/Cost rules changed and it occurred to me it would require yet another Craft specialty to do properly. The fate of the aether ships is uncertain, granted. And given the material requirements you set up, they're incredibly expensive to build. These could pretty easily be deemed "not worth it." But... why? There's almost nothing on the western coastline of Kith Kanaan. You have easier access to the Roan Isles, which are "piratey" and survive (somehow, given location) on trade with others but there's no established leadership or unique resources there. It's a little shorter to Chey Sart, which is "a single city and a half-dozen villages" and very warlike - not the best trade partners there. All the major, civilized nations (Anaitha, Drachen, Tarantis, R'tal - even Aregon and Anansie if you count them) are easier to access either by land or via Nycthanlinth to the east.
ReplyDeleteSorry, brain-fart. Yes, Jacob's sister. The Anaithans have 'light ships', which they summoned from Yomi, but those were short-term, not permanent vehicles. As to why the path to the west coast? No clue. They want to build it, I'm willing to let them. :)
ReplyDelete... Who was "they?" Seriously, for the amount of time, money, and magic that would have been required to carve out that canal, I think a fleet of airships would have been easy.
ReplyDeleteYou know.. it's issues like that that make me glad that religion(s) don't play a major part in the SCA (at least not overtly - no prayer before court, the Muslim personas yelling at the crusader personas, etc). Being completely unfamiliar with the fantasy setting to which you're referencing, I don't know if there exists a "raise dead" spell, or the like... but it would seem that that would be the quick way of getting a few important answers about the afterlife... ;)
ReplyDeleteThat's just it. People have come back. People have "visited" the spirits of the dead. The afterlife is known. And it's different for different people.
ReplyDeleteI offer this, and only this: The current state of affairs are entirely mutable and changable by the actions of PCs and the GMs that run the Tiny Plots with the current staff that is present that allows such change as 'plausible' as long as it makes for good story. Myself? I'm against a lot of sudden change, but you know that (In fact one might think I'm against any sort of change at all)
ReplyDeleteI don't mind change. I'm generally against a fully-static setting. But when magic has existed in its current incarnation for hundreds or thousands of years, there ought to be a good reason why there aren't portals or at least faster-than-mundane-wagons/ships travel between major cities. That a PC is the first person to think of that strains suspension of disbelief.
ReplyDeleteNot that your feelings on the matter are considered, neh? ;) Or if there's always been town destroying magic, why they've not used it?
ReplyDeleteHeh. One of the more frustrating points, yes, as I bothered to come up with a plausible reason (even if it did involve divine intervention) for such magics to go unused... then that was overlooked when it came up. GrrGrr.
ReplyDelete